The Socratic Cafe Dialogue

                               The Socratic Cafe Dialogue

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Chris and two of his committed Christian friends John and Matt started a Socratic Cafe. They wanted it to start on a good basis so they laid down some specific rules. The Cafe would meet whenever convenient—monthly or biweekly. It would meet wherever convenient—at member’s houses, a church, coffee house, or national bookstore. It would meet for 2 hours at a convenient time such as Saturday or Sunday afternoon or a weeknight, and friends could socialize awhile afterwards. It could choose to provide light refreshments or a meal if persons desired.
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The group could start with a few people singles or married and grow into hundreds. Everybody’s ideas and opinions would be given respectful consideration. Each contributor would state his or her name such as Sue, Bill, Sharpe, etc and express their view for the group’s consideration. Questions may be asked and issues explored. Everyone is welcome Christian or non Christian.
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Topics for the next meeting would be announced and sources of books and GOOD NEWS MESSAGES suggested for study. Any topic of interested may be explored. Topics might be Evil and God, What Constitutes the Ideal Family? Is Christ God? What Is Biblical Salvation? What is Free Will or Predestination? What does a particular religion believe? Can evolution of man be demonstrated? How can we know God’s Will? When should Nations go to War? Is Abortion a Good Thing?

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Chris and his friends were excited. They left notices on house doors or car windshields inviting people, advertised it in the local newspaper, called or emailed friends about it. Everything was made ready and the meeting began.
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The first meeting was small but challenging. Besides the three founders Atheon, Skeptus, Pan, and Deeus showed up. The topic for this Socratic Café’s discussion is, “Does God exist and if so how could we know?” Chris asked, “Who would like to give their view first? We’re all friends here and as human individuals have our own viewpoints that need to be explored. Nobody knows it all and education and exploration of different ways to look at issues is good.”

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Pan: Well, I believe in god. God is the greatest thing there is and god is everywhere and everything. God is the trees, the clouds, the grass, the air, the ground. God takes a million forms. I’m even a part of god.

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Skeptus: I don’t know about that Pan. I have my doubts. It’s difficult for me to imagine all of nature as being god. How can god be so many conflicting things? I mean wouldn’t god have to be both mind and matter, both good and bad karma if we can even use the terms good and bad, both alive and dead. Sure, there’s energy and force in the universe but I can’t see that it’s all just one thing and all illusion. I mean it seems everything I do; I couldn’t do, if all is illusion.

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Deeus: I agree with Skeptus, Pan. I believe there’s more to God than energy, principle, force, or whatever you want to call it. I look at nature’s beauty, its complexity, its design, and am overwhelmed with awe. There just must be some kind of intelligence behind it. It just couldn’t come about from nothing. It seems to me there must be a Creator to explain all this. But then again, I don’t feel there’s any God who hears my prayers or has anything to do with me. I don’t know if there’s life after death or not. Life is difficult and I can’t explain why things never seem to work out the way I hope or would like.

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John: I think you’re right at least in part Deeus. All that suggests a personal God. He’s not just a principle or force. But God doesn’t give us everything we want. If there is a Mind great enough to create a universe, it seems to me there would be many things I don’t know or can understand. That seems reasonable to my limited understanding. I sure don’t know it all. Maybe too we are ungrateful for the things God does give us and really want nothing to do with God in our life. He could be trying to tell us things we don’t want to hear. That’s sure been true in my life and I hope I’ve learned some lessons. There was a time in my life when I wouldn’t think of going to church or pick up a Bible.

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Pan: I can see you guys have a much different background from me. My folks came from India and I’ve just went along with what I was told. I never gave it serious thought. I can see there are things I should consider. This meeting may be a real help to me.

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Atheous: Hey, not so fast! Let me get a word in here. I’m not going to let God off the hook. If there really were a God or at least a good God, there wouldn’t be such great evils in the world. The whole thing of God and evil seems like a contradiction to me. A good and powerful Creator of the universe would have eliminated these evils long ago or at least greatly reduced them to manageable proportions. What do you guys say to that?

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Matt: You have raised a serious problem here Atheous. Its bothers unbelievers and Christians alike. I believe it challenges all of us at times. I don’t think we can have a complete answer in specific cases. And it sure brings grief, confusion, and pain to our hearts and lives. But I don’t think God and evils, no matter how bad the evils, are a contradiction. Yes, murders, rapes, robberies and wars occur. But God could allow them for reasons we don’t understand. Deeus was right that a Creator of the universe with all its complexity, its design, and its beauty, must do things far beyond our meager understanding. Pan too had a point that there is a unity to the way things work out, but a reason to the way things interact together. Even the elements show a harmony of design. Nothing can’t create something--shaking his head—it doesn’t make sense. And all we know from science points to a beginning and a Beginner. There is a God. That God must be a HE, not an IT. That God must be intelligence and will evidenced throughout the design and harmony of the created universe.

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Skeptus: Well, I still have my doubts. I’ll concede we maybe can’t know in particular cases. But what about events in general? Even supposing there’s no contradiction between God and evils since God may have reasons for allowing so many evils, what are God’s reasons?

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John: It seems to me that if God suddenly quelled all the evils in the world, God would have to do away with all the people in the world. Don’t we all do some things we know aren’t right? I mean wouldn’t you tend to hate somebody who murdered you spouse or children? Isn’t even hatred a motive itself that leads to revenge and murder? Don’t we all find ourselves attracted to someone else’s spouse at times? But wouldn’t we abhor someone coveting the spouse we loved?

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Atheon: So, we’re all imperfect. But I’m no sinner and I’m not convinced there’s any personal God.

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John: Atheon, I’m glad you feel free to express your honest feelings and convictions. But I hope all of us are open-minded enough to hear opposing viewpoints and give them honest consideration.

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Matt: About those general reasons why God may allow evils, I can think of two definite reasons. One, to prevent evil, God would have to make us puppets and pull our strings. We would be forced to do God’s will. That would make God a tyrant and us no better than programmed machines. That neither honors God crediting him as love nor honors us as being any different from machines. Moreover, the Bible shows that our first parents chose to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil choosing a world of both good and evil. We wouldn’t be any different in their place as we do wrong things or sin in various ways every day.

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Atheon: All right! I’ll admit if God exists, he could have reasons for allowing evils in the world and we limited human beings may not understand them. But that doesn’t give me reasons to believe God exists. And I’ll try to be open-minded if somebody can give me reasonable evidences. I’ve experienced a lot of pain in my life from my father’s harsh treatment and it’s not easy to see a good God in the world. Some psychologists say God is delusion. Maybe they’re right.

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Matt: I mentioned science shows the universe had a beginning that points to a Beginner or God. This is shown by the universe’s expansion, by its use able energy running down, by the fact that we can’t backtrack eternally or we wouldn’t be here today. The Creator of space, matter and time must be eternal, self-existent, unchangeable, immaterial Personal consciousness and will or He could never decide to create. A nonexistent unintelligent force can’t create anything.

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Deeus: But Matt, even supposing God created, that doesn’t have anything to do with me personally. I have to face this world of sweat, blood, and tears.

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Matt: Yes, we all do and it can be painful. But our Creator knows this firsthand. He took on a human body and nature and was tempted in all points like us. God became man and walked among us. Jesus, the God-man, told us many times and ways that he is our God. It was no empty claim—he fulfilled hundreds of ancient Jewish prophecies only God could fulfill. Jesus walked on the water, commanded angels and demons, lived without sin, died in our place to save us from our sins and arose from the dead. He said anyone believing in him will be given eternal life.

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Atheos: What do you mean? I’ve never heard of Jesus. It sounds too good to be true. I want to hear more.

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Chris: Good. I assure you, you will. But time is up. So much turmoil and revolt is occurring in the Muslim world. Would you people like to discuss next meeting the question, “Can non-Christian governments under dictators and Shari’a law gain real freedom of religion and representation for their people? All hands voted yes for this being the next discussion topic.

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Some time later, it seems regretfully, there's no foundation for freedom and different faiths.